The linguistic borders of the Slovak Land (Slovenská Zem, Sclavonia) around X. cent.
According to the Slovenian book called Veneti, First Builders of European Community by Jožko Šavli, Matej Bor and Ivan Tomažič, page 212, the holy brothers Cyril and Methodius established their mission in Moravia in 862, „which was soon destroyed by Germans, whereupon they worked in the Slovene Pannonia – future Hungary – under the protection of Slovene Prince Kocelj„. In this article you will read that everything was different. According to the toponymical research of the area by prof. Ján Stanislav Pannonia wasn’t Slovenian but Slovak! Also Prince Kocelj couldn’t be a Slovenian because his father Prince Pribina was a Slovak prince who settled near Lake Blatno (Balaton) after his expelation from the Slovakian then-capital Nitra where he had ruled before and established the first Christian church on the Slavic land.
Slovakia has not always been such a small country as we know her nowadays. A long time ago, before the arrival of the Magyars, the Slovaks used to have a kingdom, which is known amongst the historians as The Great Moravian Empire. The other names of the kingdom were Moravia, Sclavos Margenses (Moravian Slovakia), Sclavinia (Sclavonia, Slovenska, Slovakia), Slovjenьska zemlę (Slavic Land, Slovak Land, Slovenská Zem; by Nestor).
Saint Nestor the Chronicler (c. 1056 – c. 1114, in Kiev), who was the reputed author of the Primary Chronicle, the earliest preserved East Slavic chronicle, places the ancient homeland of the Slavs along the river Danube in the Carpathian basin where the Slovaks used to live. Allegedly from this very homeland the Slavs have spread in all directions and covered more than half of Europe. Actually the name Slav itself is derived from Slovaks‘ older and original name, which was Sloven, meaning both: a Slovak and a Slav in general. This original name is still used in the case of the Slovak women, who are called Slovenky, and the language, which is called slovenský or slovenčina. It is just a matter of fact that the Slovak language is the most understandable for all Slavic nations as it has the western, eastern and southern influences, or vice-versa, all the surrounding Slavic nations have the Slovak influence and, yes, also origin!
More than a thousand years ago the Slovaks were building one Pan-Slavic kingdom with one Pan-Slavic language and writing. Their attempt was militarily destroyed mainly by the Germans (Franks) and Magyars and this way the Slovaks fell under the foreign rulers and began to quickly assimilate. In this Pan-Slavic attempt the Slovaks initiated the Slavic writing later called Cyrillic after its inventor Saint Cyril, or Slavic after the Slovaks, who were its first bearers. This way the Slovaks were the first Slavic nation that prayed to the Christian God in their own language, which is nowadays known as The Old Church Slavonic – the fourth official liturgical language after Greek, Latin and Hebrew. When the Pope of Rome more than a thousand years ago forbid the Slavic liturgy and ordered to expel the Slavic priests from the Slovak kingdom, the Slovaks accepted the Latin writing. But the Slavic writing survived anyway. Actually this cruel action of the Pope and a German bishop named Wiching helped to spread it to other Slavic nations since the priests, after being sold as slaves in the slave market in Venice and bought by a Bulgarian nobleman, got to Bulgaria and from there to other Slavic countries like Serbia, Croatia, or Russia.
Sometimes the western media would call the Slovaks a young nation. It is actually a deep misunderstanding. The Slovaks are the oldest of all Slavic nations. While the Slovaks still keep their original name, the Czechs, Poles, or Russians have acquired a new name after moving from the ancient homeland. The Slovaks had their first church built in the year 828, almost 50 years before the first Czech duke Břetislav was even Christianized, which happened only from the initiative of the Slovak king Svätopluk I. The Great! The Slovaks had a Slovak king more than 200 years before the Czechs had a Czech king. Slovakia was much bigger than Bohemia, the Czech land. More than a thousand years ago it was the Slovaks who ruled the Czechs, but in the Czecho-Slovak federation it was a kind of opposite. The Slovaks remembered their old glory and after more than a thousand years they finally were able to have their own state again.
Actually the English word king and German word König have the origin in the ancestor of the Slavic kьneNdzь (in the old Slovak kьneNdzь means a king, nowadays it means a priest), which before palatisation and creation of the nasal vowel sometimes before the 5th century had a form kьn-in-g-! The word has two meanings: 1) the one who is the first in a hierarchy, 2) the one who protects the law /zákonník, zá-kon-ník; kon-nik=>king, König/. Its perfect Latin equivalent would be a principal – the one who is the first and protects the principles.
The fact that the Slovak nation was once living in a much larger country than nowadays is obvious. Prof. Ján Stanislav, a highly respected linguist, was trying to find the linguistic borders between the Slovak and Southern Slavic toponyms. The result is clear and fascinating – The Slovaks were once one of the largest Slavic nations and today’s Slovakia is just a small fraction of the original Slovak land. Today’s Hungary used to be a country of Slovaks speaking with the central Slovak dialect. Only those Slovaks, who were protected by the high mountains, survived and preserved the original language and culture in present day Slovakia.
Prof. Ján Stanislav – THE SLOVAK SOUTH IN THE MIDDLE AGES
The Slovaks settled in the Danube basin at the latest by the beginning of the 6th century. Prof. Ján Stanislav, the author of the famous book called The Slovak south in the middle ages, addresses the question of which areas they lived up to approximately the end of the Middle Ages. The politics pursued particularly by Rastislav, Koceľ and Svätopluk /the Slovak kings, remark by Blažena Ovsená/ in the 9th century – and which involved Cyril and Methodius – was that of a great power. The present extent of Slovakia, if we add eastern Moravia, gives an unduly pessimistic impression of the political and ethnographic presence of the Slovak element in the remote past. That said, it is also the case that even today the ethnographic outreach of the Slovaks is not as modest as the political map would suggest. Hundreds of thousands of Slovaks live beyond the borders of the Slovak Republic, sometimes in large compact areas either abutting the state or detached from it.
What, then, is that historical Slovakia? This is the question prof. Ján Stanislav, the author, tackles in respect of the Slovak South. In the first chapter he draws on analysis of linguistic signs in place names to demonstrate the extent of the Slovak element in Pannonia /today’s western Hungary, remark by Blažena Ovsená/ and to suggest its bounds. The second chapter investigates the density of the Old Slav settlement of the area, a subject already partly explored by Hungarian Slavicists and scholars of Hungary such as Moór, Melich and Kniezsa. The Slavs were living in Pannonia long before the arival of the Magyars, and there is evidence of their presence there as late as the end of the 15th century in the form of Slav toponyms and personal names which the Magyars assimilated to the conventions of their own language. Such assimilated forms are to be found in historical documents alongside unassimilated forms, often of the same name.
Ján Stanislav demonstrates that Slovak settlement in Pannonia extended beyond the Neusiedler Lake to the west, the Slovak-Slovene border then winding through the area of Rabice (Hungarian Répce; German Rafnitz) to the southeast and along the left bank of the river Rába to the south. In Zala county it extended to the west along the Krka (Hungarian Kerka) basin and south to the watershed of the Drava and Zala. In Somod county the border between the Slovaks and the Southern Slavs continued along the watershed of the Drava and Lake Balaton /Slovak Blatno, remark by Blažena Ovšená/ to that of the right tributaries of the river Kapos and the left tributaries of the Drava. On the Danube the Slovaks encountered the Southern Slavs between Bogyisló (Buďislav), which had a Slovak phonological sign, and Szeremle (Srěmľani) which had a Southern Slav character.
The knowledge that Pannonia was Slovak is of great scholarly, cultural and historical importance and will require the correction of quite a number of errors current, pasticularly in Slav studies, for decades and the fundamental revision of teaching on Pannonia.
Prof. Ján Stanislav also looks at the area above the Danube and along the river Tisza, drawing on a detailed analysis of toponymy to provide a quite different image of old Slovak settlement than that furnished by all the maps produced to date depicting the Slovak territory since 1773. He discovered that there was a quite dense Slovak settlement along the Danube. He also sheds light on the question of Žitný ostrov /island, remark by Blažena Ovsená/, revealing that this, too, is old Slovak territory with a great number of Slovak place names, and one which in terms of dialect was part of the central Slovak area. The surroundings of Nitra were also densly populated by Slovaks. A document of 1111 from Zobor monastery fails to record a single dignitary of Hungarian name, and in the 12th century only 25.7% of the communities in the area were Hungarian.
Compact areas of Slovak settlement reached to the Danube and continued to the south. Along the Danube, approximately from Vác, there remains to this day a ribbon of Slovak hamlets. The Matra Mountains and Bukový les were also quite densely populated by Slovaks before the arrival of the Magyars, their settlements existing to the river Tisza. The Tokay Hills and the whole area between the Tisza and Košice had – where the terrain permitted – quite regular Slovak settlement. Further to the east the Slovak presence stretched along the Tisza to what is now Zakarpattya in Ukraine, from Uzghorod eastwards.
The Slovaks also lived beyond the Tisza, a fact of which Moór has given us valuable evidence in Die slavischen Ortsnamen der Theissebene (1930). Moór’s research indicated that Slovaks lived in this area and in old Bihar up to around the year 1200. Some indications would suggest, however, that they were there even later. Moór found reliable evidence of the Slovak nature of the indigenous old Slavs as far as on the left bank of the river Maros. Only in his belief that the Slovaks living here were nearer to eastern Slovaks is he to be faulted: they were, rather, speakers of central Slovak dialect.
The result of prof. Ján Stanislav’s study is the insight that Slovaks were once a large nation which extended over the most of the Danube basin. Today’s Slovakia is only a part of that old Slovakia, in most of whose area the central Slovak dialect was spoken. The Slovak nation as it exists now is only a fragment of an old and great nation. Judging from the extent of the territory which it habitated, and from the large number of settled areas, it would appear to have been – in the 9th and 10th centuries – one of the largest of Slav nations.
Some towns in today’s Hungary (Magyaria) having the Slovak origin
Buda, Slovak Budín: per linguam hungaricum dicitur nunc Buduuar Anonym, Boduariam devastavit ALBERICUS MON., Siccambriam fecerat nominari Buda Wara … Budauara, sed urbs Atyle hungari Ovbudam vocant Picture Chronicle, de Veteri Buda 1303 etc. Etymology: It could be a Slavic personal name Buda, which is the most probable. Other authors show other possibilities from Ghotic *Buda, from which is old Hungarian Boto, from German Budo (Bote = apostolus, envoy) or allegedly as a folky etymology from Bleda and finally from a Latin personal name Buda.
Esztergom, Slovak Ostrihom, German Gran: Strigonium, strigoniensis the oldest chronicles from the second half of the XI. cent., Estrigun (Odo de Diogilo), …sancte strigranensis (sic!) ecclesie … minister…, in parrochia stigranensi…, in stigranensi suburbio 1156. Old Czech: Potom knyez brzyeczyslaw vherskeho krale boyem poby-: awalem strzyehomy doby Dalimil’s Chronicle, XIV. cent. in other manuscripts: Střěhomě, Ostřihom. Serb-Croatian Ostrogon. Tirkish: Usturgun, Usturgan, Usturgum, Isturgum. The oldest Magyar form is Estrigun. Arabic geographer writes Estergona, Ostrikovna, Ostrigouna. German: Grane 1172, 1289.
Etymology: *Strěgom->*Strěhom. Originally it was a personal name with a root strěg– „to patrol, to watch, to keep guard“ and suffix –om, adding suffix –jь. In the Czech Republic there is a village Střěhom, the second form Střihom.Pozsony, Slovak Bratislava, Lat. Posonium: castrum Poson Picture Viennese Chronicle XIV. cent., ac noctu castrum Bosan, quod et Bresburc, quod olim (i.e. 1108) imperator Heinricus obsidione cinxerat, … Otto Fris. Gesta Frid. I. Imp.. Kosmas (died 1125): Possen (Pozzen) as a. 1108. Hungarian texts: Posonium, posoniensium, Posinium. Czech Požun, Slovak Požún (Prešpurk).
Etymology: *Božan-jь > Božaň, to a personal name Božan, resp. Božäň to a personal name Božän. Compare with old Polish personal name Bożan, Bożana, Bulgarian and Serbo-Croatian Božana, fem. Other location names: Czech Božanov, Serbo-Croatian and Slovenian Božaninci, Božanići, Božanec, Božanovska, Božanuša. In the north-western part of Satumare county there is a locality Bozan, Bosan, read as Božan.
Pressburg, a German name of Bratislava, comes from old Slovak personal name Braslav adding -burg meaning a castle.Veszprém, Slovak Bezprín. Etymology: *Bezprěmjь > *Bezprěm‘, to a personal name Bezprěmъ. According to Melich it means „violent, difficile“. This name can be only of western Slavic origin, most likely Slovak. Between the historical records we have also Brezprem from XI. cent. This record is another important proof that the place, castle Vesprím was named by Slavs who have lived here long after the arrival of Magyars. The prefix brez- is the proof. This cannot be a writer’s mistake but a reflection of the live speech, in which alongside with a form bez- existed a form brez– as it is up until now in the Liptov county (Slovakia) where bez and brez mean the same (there is a form bezočivý and brezočivý).
Mosony in old Hungarian, German Wieselburg: civitas Mussun 1137, Musunium 1221, 1240, in Musunio … as comitem Musuniensem 1282, Mosonium 1432, 1451.
Etymology: According to Moór *Mъšinъ or *Mъšьnъ, to mъchъ „bryophyte, moss“ (in Slovak mach). The correctness of this etymology is supported by Moór’s pointing at the German translation that originally was Mies(ig)enburc, which is a translation of the Slavic name (upper Germanic mies meaning mach in Slovak).Kapos, Slovak Kapušany: In Hungarian kapus means „doorman, doorkeeper„. It would mean that it was a settlement of doormen of some castle, maybe Užhorod. But in the south there is also a village Kapoňa. More to the south-east there is a mountain Kapoňa. In the south near Karča there is a small hill Kapuš. In the south-west near Ozorovice in Zemplín county there is a mountain Kapoveň. It means that the names with kap- are here more often what makes us be more careful with stating the etymology of the name Kapušany. It is quite possible that the name of this town has the same root as other names with kap- in the wider area of this town. We could have a root kapь „Baal, idol, in Slovak modla“. Maybe there are some reminiscences to paganism. Connection of the Slavic name with a Hungarian noun would be then just a folky etymology.
Miskolc, Slovak Miškovec: Anonym mentions a piece of land „a fluuio topolucea (i. e. Toplica, meaning spa, or hot water source in Slovak) usque ad fluuium souyou (Sajó, in Slovak Slaná meaning salty) que nunc vocatur miscoucy„, Myskouch 1281, Miscolch 1320, etc.
Etymology: Myškovci, resp. later Miškovec. Compare with the Slovak villages Miškovec, Miškovci, Serbo-Croatian Miškovci.
Blažena Ovsená, The Primary Chronicle simply lists the homeland of the Slavs as ‚beyond the Danube‘ which is a very general description. Most of modern Romania and over half of modern Hungary are ‚beyond the Danube‘, just as are all of the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Ukraine, Belarus and Russia. ‚Beyond the Danube‘ is just as broad as saying that the homeland of the Celts was ‚beyond the Rhine‘.
With regard to the Romanians and the fake ‚Moldovans‘, they are Latinized Thracians (the Slavicized Thracians being Bulgarians along with the fake ‚Macedonians‘), much in the same way that the French and Spanish are Latinized Celts, while Serbo-Croats are Slavicized Illyrians. The Romanians developed as a people between 100 and 400 AD, however many fled to the mountains, both the Carpathians and the lower ranges in Transylvania and into the Eastern Roman Empire (Bulgaria north of the Balkan Mountains) during the migration period, only to return after things settled down. The Slavs only arrived in modern Romania after 500 AD when the Gipids were destroyed and the Lombards moved out. The same is true for modern Hungary and Slovakia, as they were only settled by the Slavs by the time the Lombards left after 600 AD.
With regard to the claims that Slavs lived in the region before the Celts, that’s just one person’s opinion that is contradictory to international mainstream history and archeology. The Celts originated in southern Germany, eastern France, the Czech Republic, Austria, Switzerland and western Slovakia. They subsequently migrated westwards into France, Britain, Ireland, Portugal, most of Spain and northern Italy and were largely replaced by Germans moving south.
As for small populations, Poland, in the year 1000, had only 1,000,000 people, giving it a population density of only 4 people per km^2, showing just how sparse the population was. Despite numerous wars with the Germans, Russians, Turks and even Czechs, their population increased 60 fold, as there are currently some 60,000,000 Poles worldwide, a number that would be 20% or so larger had it not been for Hitler, Stalin and their allies.
If you look at the following link, it’s a Russian site which shows the ethno-linguistic makeup of Europe between 500 BC and 500 AD. Note the green–i.e. Slavs, and how they are not only beyond the Danube but beyond the Carpathians as well. Also note that none of the original Slavic homeland is shown in Russia, thus eliminating it as Russian propaganda.
http://www.roman-glory.com/05-01-03
Stepan, you are not right. Nestor, the Russian Chronicler, said that the Slavs originated in the Slavic Land, nowadays Hungary, and that these Slavs settled there before Volochs. Volochs are not Romans as everybody would think from the fact that the Romans are called Volochs in Russian and Olach in Hungarian. Actually the Romans acquired the name Voloch from Celts living in the northern Itally, the Welsh. The Celts were beaten but some of them remained in the northern Italy and they Romanized and then these Romans were called Volochs. So Nestor says the Slavs lived in the Slavic/Slovak Land long before Celts, Celts lived there long before Romans a and Romans lived there long before Germans.
You are also not right in stating that the population of Slavs/Slovaks in the Slavic/Slovak Land was small. If it had been small, the Slavs wouldn’t have spread to more than half of Europe. If it had been small in the 9th century then the politics, which was done in by our kings, wouldn’t have been so powerful (Moravian Empire, Slavic writing project, etc).
What you are describing about the Slovak/Hungarian border is a result of assimilation. It is not important where the Hungarians lived, or where they didn’t live. The land was Slovak, it caries the Slovak toponyms, which are just Hungarianized.
Interesting…I somehow came across this while looking for a map of Slovakia’s administrative devsion between 1918 and 1938, which I have yet to find. All I can say about the article is it is a complete falsification of history. The Slavic people origionated from modern Belarus, the east-central half of Poland, the northwestern 2/3 or so of Ukraine and extreme west-central Russia, from which they spread westwards into the lands vacated by the Germans, the Goths, Vandals, Burgundians and Suevi, as they previously fled from the Huns into Roman lands from 375-450 AD. From 550-600 the Slavs then advanced south into modern Hungary, Czech Republic and Slovakia as the Gepids were destroyed and the Lombards migrated to Italy, however those Slavs (minus the Serbo-Croats and Bulgarians) were largly ruled by the Avars until the early 9th century.
Furthermore, this ‚mideval claim‘ of Slovaks to most of Hungary is false in and of itself, as one could use such claims to show that most of Turkey is in fact Greek (Byzantine empire 700-900 AD), and most of Spain and Portugal are in fact Arab (718-900 AD), most of modern Ukraine being Tatar and virtually all of modern Russia being Tatar, not to mention that the Slovaks were so thinly settled and ruled by the Avars (like the proto Spanish and Portuguese under Arab rule in Spain), that save for a short ‚pop up‘ empire, they were of little importance on the historic scene.
The Hungarians settled in the sparsly populated Carpathian Basin around 896 AD, settling the Great Hungarian Plain, up to Bratislava and Kosice, although not having a presence in Transylvania for some centuries later when the Szeckleys were placed there, where they ended up forming a majority of around 75% of the population for most of the time between 1000 and 1500 AD, a majority that sharank to 50% by 1700 due to the Turkish Wars, and 35% by 1800 due to re-population at the hands of the Austrians, but one that rose to 46% by 1869 and 1880 due to natural assimilation, and to 55% by 1910 due to colinizaiton and assimilation, combined with Slovak and Romanian immigration to the US.
The fact of the matter is that the ethno-linguistic frontier between Hungarians and Slovaks was maintained via natural means up until 1880 when the Hungarians started colonizing, especially Bratislava and Kosice until 1918. Following WWI, Slovakia, like Romania and Serbia, committed gross territorial gluttony agianst Hungary–annexing purly Hungarian territories out of simple un-justified greed, and went on a coliniazation campaign of their own from 1918-1938, and a massive one from 1945-1989 to the point where nearly 2/3 of the Slovaks living south of the language border–living in Hungarian lands–are the decendants of colonists.
This language line–the frontier of 1700-1880, started just south of Bratislava, traveling east, just north of Senec, Galanta and Sala, turning south though still north of Tvrdosovce, Nove Zamky and Dvory nad Zitavou, turning Northeast, passing south of Levice, turning east, passing south of Velky Krtis, turning northeast, passing just to the north of Lucenec, Gimavska Sobota and Roznava, before merging with the current border just to the east of Sena, before splitting off again just to the north of Michalany, traveling northeast to the south of Trevisov and Palin before moving east, south of Bezovce and continuing in Ukraine south of Uzhhorod. South of this ‚line‘, the population was over 80% Hungarian, and there were enough Hungarians (in 1869 and 1880, obviously in 1890, 1900, 1910, 1921, 1930 and 1941) living to the north to balance out the Slovaks living to the south.
yes, I\’m slovak. (or better Czechoslovakohungarian) :))
I would like to write something but I do not want to just make it like a list of the words. It needs some analysis because some of the words are modern borowing but some of them are from pre-historian age.
I\’m speaking about \"Slovene\" -> Sloveni, the slavic nation which was living in present hungary, slovakia and moravia. Probably also in eastern austria.
Now just question is how can we divide Slovenian or Slovakian in this \"slovene/sloveni\".
We become a western slavic nation Polan -> Polak, Slovan -> Slovak. But probably this meaning Sloven/Slovan is borrowed from \"Slavit\" to celebrate Slavic gods (this topic was not about gods)
So who was celebrating their gods (slavil slovanskych bohov) he was Slovien / Sloven / Slovan -> ten co slavi. Like \"veriaci\" / faithful / believer.
Yes, I realise that there are much mistakes, I\’m not involved about everything and it\’s normal to make a mistake :) But my head is full of those similiaritis, but I\’m affraid of to tell how it was.
I don\’t think that those time it was a \"Slovak\" or \"Czech\" or \"Slovenian\" nation. It was a group of tribes, speaking similiar language (because of roots, business and many reasons, not only roots) and they were believing / slaviti the same gods. And according to language they change it to sloVAK or to sloveNIAN or MORAVIA (because of the river morava) or Czech (because of the head of their tribe)
Mozem/moct -> May I / may (from this word comes \"MOC\"-> power)
Chcem -> Can (could)
Prajem -> Pray
Thank you for your critics :)
yes, I’m slovak.
I would like to write something but I do not want to just make it like a list of the words. It needs some analysis because some of the words are modern borowing but some of them are from pre-historian age.
I’m speaking about „Slovene“ -> Sloveni, the slavic nation which was living in present hungary, slovakia and moravia. Probably also in eastern austria.
Now just question is how can we divide Slovenian or Slovakian in this „slovene/sloveni“.
We become a western slavic nation Polan -> Polak, Slovan -> Slovak. But probably this meaning Sloven/Slovan is borrowed from „Slavit“ to celebrate Slavic gods (this topic was not about gods)
So who was celebrating their gods (slavil slovanskych bohov) he was Slovien / Sloven / Slovan -> ten co slavi. Like „veriaci“ / faithful / believer.
Yes, I realise that there are much mistakes, I’m not involved about everything and it’s normal to make a mistake :) But my head is full of those similiaritis, but I’m affraid of to tell how it was.
I don’t think that those time it was a „Slovak“ or „Czech“ or „Slovenian“ nation. It was a group of tribes, speaking similiar language (because of roots, business and many reasons, not only roots) and they were believing / slaviti the same gods. And according to language they change it to sloVAK or to sloveNIAN or MORAVIA (because of the river morava) or Czech (because of the head of their tribe)
Mozem/moct -> May I / may (from this word comes „MOC“-> power)
Chcem -> Can (could)
Prajem -> Pray
Thank you for your critics :)
Blazena:
you’re correct, Rabota is typycaly sloven word, it’s also in russia.
And what about GRAD = ZA-GRADA (zahrada v meste) = GARDen ?
there are many words like GROB = grab / grave or GRANICA = grenzen which germans borrowed from slovak. What about slovak DRIEMAT and english DREAMING etc…
There were something when Germans took many words from Slovene language. Yes, many words are common from sanskrt or protoIE.
I just believe that modern czechs are from sloven & bor & charvat tribes – those times there wasn’t modern SLOVAK nation yet = it was a sloven nation. Slovak nation was born later under hungarian crown, when original slovens were separated.
I don’t think that Carpatians is a Slavonic / Sloven word. check this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpathian_Mountains
It will have something to do with Corps/corpo/karpe… Rocks / big Rocks
Rock = Rieka = Riva = Riava
Valley = Val
Wall = Val
Rib = Riba
Wolf = VLK
BIG / vig = Velk
sMALL = MALe
ThiCK = TuCNE
ThIN = TeNKe
The = Ten
Tor = Rod
CirRle = KRug
Will = VuoLa
Can = Chcem
Preach = Reč
Task = oTASKa
guest = gost
Breast = PRS (b to p)
nose = nos
STORe/age = prieSTOR
use = uzi
sound = zvuk
First = Prv = Primo (F to P) Prst is Frst Finger.
Yes = Jas(ne)
čas = cajt = zeit = time
Verita / Vero = Viera = Pravda = Proud
All of these words are related to each other. It’s hard to say what was first. Sloven language was very influenced by trees (Dub = Dubrava = Dubre = Dobre / Vuda = Voda) and its religion. Each of IE language was influenced by its religion + english(germanic) was influenced by roman languages.
Slovene languages were influenced by Alanic/Huruati=Croat/Iranian laguages (nebo/ovca/koc/caj…)
(window is taken from wind = vento = vietor)
Probably sloven and german language was one. Then Sloven was changed under Iranian influence. Thats why we have many iranian words. Somethimes we have two words for the same thing:
oblok = okno – oko = Aug (german Aug, sloven OKo) / prozor = priezor = zor (iranian)
Here you can see that for the same thing we use one protoGerm/Sloven and one iranian word.
so it looks like our sloven language is derived not from one origin but from more languages.
And the same is with german languages.
German and Sloven (and balitic) were one proto language.
But this unity was finished after Iranian/Alanian invasion to east europe. We started to use many iranian words and germans not. Their language has also changed. But our was changed plus influenced by Iranian = Sabir (SRB / Croat = huruati) influence.
So somehow we are Sabir/SRBIN (samariti) Iranian mix with germans. GER = GORa ??
Thank you all for very inspirative reading.
I think that CzechoMoravian – Slovak and Slovene historicians SHOULD have common sessions about OUR history. It’s also history of Polish tribes.
I’ve heard that croatians and serbians (sarmati) were originaly not slavic (slovene) people. Bulgarians were mixed by slovene and turks.
Czechs were mixed by white croatians (remember terminus „charvati“ and serbians in germany) and slovene people. Moravians are more slovene and Czechs are more Croatian origin. Praotec Čech was probably white croat. (white means western)
There are many common words in Czech and Croatian (tíče, brzo, prosinec, zda-li (if) etc..) these words are not present in Slovak (slovene).
Samuel Frank (slovene from „austria“) – does Slovenian knows about this ruler ? What Slovenian says about Samo/Samuel ? This can be the key where probably Slovak/Slovenian nation was broken.
I believe that slovenes who was living / ruling in Nitrava were colonized by Slovenes from Moravia. Nitra is knowadays souronded by dialect which reminds me southern languages. Pallo = Padlo, Myllo = Mydlo etc..
I believe that northern slovenes was „fighting“ against southern slovenes in Nitra.
Morava = Borava ? Borove / Burove were another slovene tribe, probably it means Bor = Vojak / soldier ?
Please do not ask me where did I read all of this, because it’s just a topic for a discussion and for research.
The difference is that we norhtern / western (biely) slovene are using many german word (And vice versa)
RoBoTa = aRBeiT
Hnát = Hand
Varuj = Warnung and of course many more. You can’t find these words in eastern slavic enviroment.
And slovene also met rumenian / daci ? / romanian people – remember:
Sa mi páči = mi piace
Stoj = Stai (stay)
Sed = SiEDi (sit) and of course many more.
I believe that slavic tribes were mixed with Alans and other (croats, sabirs) people with iranian (aryan) origin, probably Vandals were also this kind of people. But Slovene (slovaks, slavonia, Slovenia, Slovinci in poland and germany) were original nation. The others were just different tribes.
Thank you for your critics.
Dear Božena,
I am not understand your statement:
An example of such a Slovak characteristic would be a prefix Pre-. The Slovaks are the only Slavic nation that has such a combination. There are other characteristics though.
What do you mean with this? If you mean names of villages, I am living in Prestranek and in Slovenia we have a lot names with Pre-.
Luger
http://www.veneti.info/sl/home/articles/reviews/289-ethnogenesis-invention-and-migration
http://www.continuitas.org/
Draga/Dear Božena,
Pešta naj bi imela prav tako slovanski izvor in sicer naj bi se imenovala po jamah in skalah. Izhajala naj bi iz istega izvora kot Pecs, torej iz slov. okrajšave za pečino – peč.
Pest has alsoo slavic name. Name comes from pečina, this mean very steep slope river cost. This mean that rocks rise seer from the river cost.
Something else about betatism: If you know venetic theory mean that venetian were slavic people. We have slovene minority still in Italy, but in the past the nord of Italy was slavic land. They are many names of villages, mouintains, rivers still in slovene language. Slovenian people in Italy are Benečani (Beneški slovenci). Venezia = Benečija, Veneziani=Benečani.
Asoo betatism in known in Austria: Bistrica= Weistritz, there are a lot of Bistrica villagesm all around the Austria.
Dear Božena, it is fakt that Slavs (Slovenes) were before Romans present in Evropa. We have a lot of proofs. And Romans simply translated names from Slavic to Roman. After Roman impery avtohtone Slavec people took again origine names.
If you dont know for new theory of evropians by Alinei, i cand send you.
Luger
Dear Blažena,
I am not agree with your explanation of name Buda:
Buda, Slovak Budín: per linguam hungaricum dicitur nunc Buduuar Anonym, Boduariam devastavit ALBERICUS MON., Siccambriam fecerat nominari Buda Wara … Budauara, sed urbs Atyle hungari Ovbudam vocant Picture Chronicle, de Veteri Buda 1303 etc. Etymology: It could be a Slavic personal name Buda, which is the most probable. Other authors show other possibilities from Ghotic *Buda, from which is old Hungarian Boto, from German Budo (Bote = apostolus, envoy) or allegedly as a folky etymology from Bleda and finally from a Latin personal name Buda.
and here is slovenian explanation:
Ime je sestavljeno iz dveh mest (na nasprotnih bregovih Donave). Starejši del mesta se imenuje Buda. Znano je po starem zdravilišču (bazenu z zdravilno VODO). Rimljani so mesto imenovali Aquincum, kar pomeni mesto na vodi. Ergo je Buda betatizirana *vuda=voda.
The name is composed from two towns (in two opposite river banks). Older town has name Buda. It is known by old wattering place (sanatorij-toplice, pool with healing water). The roman name for this town was Aquincum, what mean in slovenian vodišče ( aqua is voda). This mean that name Buda mean Vuda=voda. Changing „B“ to „V“ mean „betatizem# an we have a lot of examples of this in Slovenia.
Luger
Súhlasím s pánom Križkom. Ako som písal vyššie, neviem si predstaviť, ako je možné, že sa naše spoločné korene doteraz neskúmali, či už naši predkovia mali nejaké nedorozumenia, alebo mie.
Na druhej strane nechápem, prečo ani Slovinci nespravili žiadny krok v tomto smere. Pochybujem, žeby v časoch Juhoslávie boli v histórii natoľko zaznávaní a obmedzovaní Srbmi, alebo Chorvátmi, ako sme boli (a aj sme – viď nižšie) my Čechmi.
Je možné, žeby Sloveni/Slovinci nemali záujem o Slovenov/Slovákov? Mohol by nám pán „Milan“ vysvetliť, že ako je možné, že na medzinárodnú konferenciu pred dvoma rokmi v Ljubjane (na akú poukázal pán Križka) nepozvali nikoho zo Slovenska?
Vyzerá čudne, že tam boli (keď sa nemýlim) pozvaní Češi (Petr Jandáček, Anton Perdih), ale Slovákov nereprezentoval nikto.
Tak to potom aj vyzerá. Stačí si trochu zalistovať ich referát, aby človek na 2.strane našiel „strom jazykov“, na ktorom západných Slovanov reprezentujú iba Češi a Poliaci.
Slováci žiadnu vetvu, ani vetvičku na tom strome jazykov nemajú.
Vyzerá to tak, že podľa nich my (a naša slovenčina) ani neexistujeme, a potom sa divime, že svet o nás nič nevie.
What about linguistic similary between our leanguages and Sanskrt. Do you agree with studyes?
http://www.korenine.si/zborniki/zbornik06/skulj_sanskrt06.pdf
Luger
prosím, prečítajte a preložte úžasné slovinské výskumy, zverejnené v siedmich zborníkoch na stránke http://www.korenine.si/zborniki.htm#2008
to, že sme niekedy medzi sebou bojovali, vôbec neznačí, že nie sme so Slovincami pôvodne jeden národ… Úlohou slovenskej diplomacie by malo byť v prvom rade vytvoriť aj v súčasnosti silné puto, minimálne tak silné ako s ČR, so Slovinskom a v neposlednom rade ďalšími národmi bývalej Juhoslávie…
obávam sa, že naša izolovanosť je našou hanbou a nemá ospravedlnenie, lebo buď objavujeme koleso, alebo si navyše sami hádžeme pod nohy polená…
slovinskému priateľovi verte, obdivujem jeho trpezlivosť a láskavosť, s akou sa tu prihovára
Blažena,
mislil sem na prvo državo Slovencev: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carantania.
Something more: . Balaton i(Blatno jezetro) is a lake 70 km from Slovenian border and in this direction in Hungary still living Slovenian mynority. It is more logical that there were Slovenians and not Slovaks (but I am convinced, that before Madžar ocupation, we were same nation with little linguistical differences).
And something about our language: IIwas in Slovakia two times and I can say that you have names for towns, villiges, rivers , like Slovenians. I was suprised that even the names of people are the same. Between Slovenians and Croats, who are our neighbours , is bigger differece.
Even genetic studies proves this, Slovenians are closer to Slovaks, Czezs, Polaks, East Germans (they are geneticly Slavs) than sout Slavs.
Regars, Milan
Draga Blaženka,
Slovenski jezik ne spada med južnoslovanske jezike, ampak med zahodnoslovanske. Ne mešajte stare teorije da so vsi narodi v bivši Jugoslaviji južnoslovanski. Slovenski narod še danes živi v južnem delu Avstrije (Koroški Slovenci). Pred stoletji pa je ta narod živel po celi Avstriji in v 12. stoletju tudi v južni Bavarski. Torej je na področju Avstrije bila država Karantanija. Kasneje so Avstrijo Nemci ponemčili, ampak v Avstrijcih je še vedno 70% slovanskuih genov. Kaj vam je zhnanega o državi Karantaniji?
Ne strinjam se tudi da se Brižinske spomenike primerja z današnjimi modernimi jeziki. Ti knjižni jeziki imajo veliko tujih primesi, slovenski jezik ima veliko Srbskih besed ( posledica skupne države). Brižinski jezik je potrebno primerjati z jezikom Slovencev v Avstriji. Ti danes govorijo svoj dialekt.
pozdrav, Milan
pozdrav, Milan
Draga Blažena,
kako lahko objasnite kje je bila meja med Slovaki (veliko Moravsko kraljevstvo) in državo Karantanijo (prva država Slovencev).
Dear Blažena, haw can you explene whwre was border between great Moravian kingdom and Carantanium kingdom.
Mislim, da je prvi pisani dokument v Slovanskih jezikih bil Brižinski spomenik v Slovenskem jeziku.
I thinK that was first writen dokument in Slavic leanguage written in latin found in south Bavaria in Slovenian leanguage.
http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bri%C5%BEinski_spomeniki
Tudi najnovejše genetske raziskave kažejo da so najbližji Slovencem genetsko Slovaki. Dokazano pa so genetsko današnji Slovenci na Alpskem področju prisotni vsaj 20.000let.
The newest genetic studies shows that geneticly are Slovenes and Slovaks wery similar nation and Slovenes are geneticly almost 20.000 years present in Alps area.
pozdrav, Milan
pozdrav, Milan